Legislature(2013 - 2014)CAPITOL 106
02/21/2013 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB3 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 3 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 3-PHOTO IDENTIFICATION VOTING REQUIREMENT
8:07:34 AM
CHAIR LYNN announced that the first order of business was HOUSE
BILL NO. 3, "An Act relating to voter identification at the
polls; and relating to the counting of absentee and questioned
ballots."
8:07:48 AM
CHAIR LYNN referred to the sponsor's statement. He stated that
voting is the foundation of the democratic republic and, to
protect that foundation, voters must be who they say they are.
Under HB 3, photo identification (ID) would be required in order
to cast a vote at a polling place. Chair Lynn characterized
that as "proactive insurance that helps guard against potential
voter fraud." He opined that one case of fraud is one case too
many, because elections can be decided by one vote. He said
photo ID is ubiquitous throughout Alaska; it is used to buy
alcohol, to enter a federal building, to travel by air, to make
some bank transactions, to drive a car, to obtain a passport,
and to buy cigarettes. Further, photo ID is required for some
tribal ID cards. Chair Lynn remarked on the likelihood of most
people to carry some form of photo ID. He said some people
claim a requirement to show photo ID in order to vote would be a
hassle, but he argued that is of small concern compared to
people in Iraq who vote at great risk to their lives and the
lives of their families.
CHAIR LYNN noted that there is a provision in HB 3 that would
make it possible for someone to vote without photo ID. He
concluded that the only purpose of the proposed legislation is
to protect the state's voting process, and he asked the
committee to support HB 3. He deferred to a member of his staff
for further details.
8:10:39 AM
FORREST WOLFE, Staff, Representative Bob Lynn, Alaska State
Legislature, presented HB 3 on behalf of Representative Lynn,
joint prime sponsor. He stated that HB 3 would strengthen the
current voting ID requirements to ensure the security of
Alaska's elections, while also respecting Alaska's unique
geography and voting population. He said Section 1 lists the
forms of photo ID and non-photo ID that are acceptable for
voting. Section 2 would allow the ID requirements to be waived
if two voting officials know the person who is voting, the
voter's name is in the register, and the officials sign next to
the voter's name. Sections 3 and 4 would amend the absentee
ballot counting and review, as well as the procedures for
question ballot review, to conform to the changes made under
Section 2 of the bill. Mr. Wolfe said under HB 3, using a
driver's license or other acceptable form of photo ID would
still provide the easiest, most convenient way to vote for most
of the population. However, because not every Alaskan has photo
ID, the proposed legislation would allow a person to use two
forms of non-photo ID to cast a vote. He said forms of non-
photo ID include a hunting license, fishing license, birth
certificate, tribal ID, and voter registration card. As current
law allows, a person who cannot meet any of the requirements
would still, under HB 3, be allowed to vote a questioned ballot
and prove his/her identity at a later date. He stated that HB 3
would protect Alaska elections against voter fraud without
disenfranchising Alaska voters.
8:13:20 AM
KRIS KOBACH, Secretary of State, State of Kansas, prefaced his
remarks by noting that the position of Secretary of State in
Kansas is similar to the position of Lieutenant Governor in
Alaska in that both serve as the chief election official. He
said the State of Kansas implemented a strict voter ID law in
2011, which had an impact in the 2012 General Election. He
opined that HB 3 is a good bill. He said Kansas, with about 2.8
million people, has four times the population of Alaska. He
related that between 1997 and 2010, the State of Kansas had
identified approximately 235,000 cases of reported voter fraud,
which led to its rigorous voter ID law. He said the Kansas law
is significantly stricter than HB 3, because it does not allow
the exceptions to the photo ID requirement that are proposed in
HB 3. In Kansas, a voter without a photo ID can vote a
provisional ballot and bring a photo ID to the election office
within a week.
8:15:41 AM
MR. KOBACH mentioned an organization called The Brennan Center
for Justice, at New York University, which he said has made an
outlandish claim - based on a 2006 survey - that as much as 11
percent of the American public lacks a photo ID. Mr. Kobach
said the survey "had a lot of problems." He stated, "We in
Kansas have the actual numbers." He reported that in the 2012
General Election, out of 1.2 million votes cast, only 838
provisional ballots were issued due to lack of sufficient photo
ID at the time the vote was cast. He said 306 people
subsequently brought in their photo ID after the election within
the allotted time. He said it appears that the remaining 532
people had photo IDs and chose not to bring them to the
election, and he surmised the reason may have been that they
felt the margin of victory was wide enough that they thought
their vote would not matter. Mr. Kobach concluded that it
appeared that virtually everyone had a photo ID in Kansas. He
said the State of Kansas ran a media campaign, using radio,
television, and print advertisements, to remind people to bring
their photo IDs to the polling place. He said the campaign
appeared to be successful, but added, "... I think it also
reflects the reality that we all know that ... in our lives
today you carry a photo ID with you pretty much everywhere you
go." He related that the Kansas photo ID law allows for a free
non-driver ID to those people who sign a paper verifying that
they do not own any of the 12 listed qualifying photo IDs. He
said in total, only 120 people requested a free ID from the
State of Kansas between January 1 and December 30 of 2012. He
said a free one needs to be made available, and he offered his
understanding HB 3 would provide a way to get a free ID.
8:18:46 AM
MR. KOBACH reported that out of 235 cases of voter fraud in
Kansas, the most prevalent form was "the vote by mail fraud for
absentee ballots." In response, the State of Kansas added two
provisions to its law. The first requires county election
officials to check the signature on the absentee ballot form and
ensure that it matches the signature the state has on file. The
second requires a person requesting an absentee ballot either to
write his/her Kansas driver's license number on the form or
provide a photo copy of a qualifying photo ID. He encouraged
the committee to consider adding both those provisions to HB 3.
8:20:18 AM
CHAIR LYNN asked if any constitutional issues were raised "when
that went through the process."
MR. KOBACH answered no. He related that before becoming the
Secretary of State, he was a constitutional law professor. He
said the Kansas law was drafted "pretty tightly," and he said he
thinks HB 3 is, too. He said in 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court
ruled in the Crawford v. Marion County Election Board case,
regarding the State of Indiana's voter ID law, that there are no
violations of anyone's right to vote, as long as the opportunity
to obtain a free photo ID is made available by the state. He
said as long as the law is not drafted in way that creates
barriers to voters in getting to the polls, it should be fine.
MR. KOBACH, in response to Chair Lynn, said the ACLU has a
general policy nationwide of opposing any legislation requiring
photo identification. He said, "Legally speaking, their
opposition was rather hollow; the [U.S.] Supreme Court rejected
the main basis of their argument already."
8:22:06 AM
MR. KOBACH, in response to the chair, said one objection heard
to photo ID legislation was that elderly people might have
difficulty producing a photo ID. He said the State of Kansas
anticipated that objection and wrote a provision in its bill,
which allowed someone over 65 years of age to use his/her
driver's license as photo ID, even if that driver's license had
long expired, because the document would serve to confirm who
the person is. Another objection heard was in relation to a
person who recently changed his/her name or appearance, and Mr.
Kobach said the Kansas law included a provision allowing a
person who had recently changed his/her name to sign an
affidavit under penalty of perjury and to allow poll workers
some discretion in the case of a person whose appearance had
changed.
8:24:39 AM
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON asked Mr. Kobach if he thinks Kansas'
law discouraged voter participation in any way.
MR. KOBACH said people who are against a voter ID requirement
often suggest that those who do not already have photo IDs may
be discouraged from voting. He said the best way to track the
statistics is to compare similar election years, for example,
Presidential elections years versus non-Presidential election
years. The voter turnout in 2000 was 66.7 percent, and the
turnout in 2012 was 66.8 percent, which Mr. Kobach opined
indicates voter turnout for those two Presidential years was
nearly identical.
8:27:06 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS asked what problems with voter ID
requirements were brought to light through the aforementioned
Brennan Center for Justice study.
MR. KOBACH opined that the manner in which the study asked if a
person had a photo ID immediately available left the person
being asked the question with the impression that he/she had to
be carrying the ID. Mr. Kobach said that because the center has
not published another survey in the ensuing seven years since
the first one, the original survey is "stale," which suggests to
him that "it was an outlier result that they obtained." He
spoke of a survey, which indicated that the number of those with
photo IDs was in the 97-98 percent range; however, he said a
survey done by the State of Kansas suggests those numbers are
"probably well above 99 percent." He said Kansas considered the
(indisc.) U.S. Census-reported number of Kansans over the age of
18, as well as the number of driver's licenses issued in the
state to people over the age of 18, and results showed there
were 30,000 more Kansas driver's licenses in circulation than
there were people living in Kansas. He ventured that probably
reflects the fact that people move frequently and some moved out
of the state and had not yet cancelled their driver's licenses.
He concluded, "I would wager that you'll probably see similar
numbers in Alaska; that probably your total number of driver's
licenses is pretty close to the total population of people."
8:29:39 AM
MR. KOBACH, in response to Representative Hughes, confirmed that
under the Kansas law, a person with an objection to having a
photo ID taken, based on religious beliefs, can sign an
affidavit at the polling place to that effect. He said Alaska
could add that language to HB 3; however, he offered his
understanding that no one took advantage of that waiver on
Election Day. He mentioned a provision under another Kansas
law, wherein a severely impaired person may get on a permanent
absentee voter list.
8:31:50 AM
MR. KOBACH, in response to a question regarding the ability of a
person who does not show up to the polls with a photo ID to
bring it in to the county officer at a later date, explained
that Kansas gives its counties the discretion of whether the
deadline to produce the photo ID is Monday - six days after the
election - or Thursday - nine days after the election.
8:32:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER stated his assumption that Mr. Kobach
would be available to help the Alaska State Legislature with HB
3 in future.
MR. KOBACH confirmed that is correct. He said he cannot recall
whether HB 3 proposes a provision allowing for the lieutenant
governor or any election official to promulgate regulations, but
said if that provision is added to HB 3, he would be happy to
work with whichever state official ends up with that authority.
He said sometimes regulations can fill in gaps, for instance, in
the aforementioned instance when a person looks much different
from his/her photo ID.
8:34:06 AM
CHAIR LYNN asked what Mr. Kobach deems as the most important
reason for such legislation.
MR. KOBACH responded that it is important when there is a close
race. He offered examples. He said the legislation would offer
the security of knowing a race is fair.
8:36:49 AM
CHAIR LYNN said there have been similar situations in Alaska
where races were won or lost by a narrow margin; in one election
a decision was made by a coin toss.
8:38:02 AM
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON questioned whether the proposed
legislation would remove any of the current provisions that
allow alternative documentation. He directed attention to
language on page 4, [lines 4-7], which list "current utility
bill, bank statement, paycheck, government check", and he said
it appears that under HB 3, those items would still be available
"for somebody who has not yet established a voting record." He
asked if that is correct.
8:39:05 AM
GAIL FENUMIAI, Director, Division of Elections, Office of the
Lieutenant Governor, clarified that the provision on page 4,
[Section 3, subsection (b), paragraph (6), subparagraph (B),
sub-subparagraph (ii)], relates to a voter who applied to
register to vote by mail and did not show a form of
identification at the time to prove his/her identity. She
continued, "So, when they go to vote for the first time in
person, that is the type of identification they are allowed to
provide a poll worker when they show up to vote." In response
to a follow-up question, she indicated that under HB 3, that
provision would still apply.
MS. FENUMIAI, in response to a question, said the Alaska
Election Code [Title 15] does not currently include religious
exemption provisions. She said Alaska does have a provision in
regulation for permanent absentee voters; however, those voters
are not automatically sent an absentee by-mail ballot, but they
are "mailed an application for which they can apply to receive a
by-mail ballot for an election." In response to another
question, she said although there are provisions for the waiver
of certain fees for indigent folks, she does not know about [a
fee waiver] for driver's licenses and state IDs.
8:41:16 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS observed that HB 3 addresses voter fraud.
She asked what voter fraud Alaska has experienced.
MS. FENUMIAI responded, "In my time at the Division of
Elections, I have not ... known or seen or heard of any cases of
voter fraud where somebody is fraudulently using another
individual's identification to vote in order to vote more than
once." She said occasionally a person will unintentionally vote
twice. For example there are elderly voters who might apply to
vote by mail and then appear to vote at their polling place.
She said the division catches that before the person's absentee
ballot is counted. She said there have been cases of identity
theft, including a case where an Anchorage Police Department
officer assumed another person's identity. She added, "But that
situation is not addressed by what this bill is trying to
correct or prevent from happening."
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS suggested there may be a "stop gap" that
has very little to do with voter ID and more to do with "just
voting twice."
MS. FENUMIAI answered that is correct.
8:43:20 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS talked about small communities where
everyone knows each other and where there are no places to go to
get a photo ID. She asked how HB 3 might affect them.
MS. FENUMIAI answered that under current law, the photo ID
requirement can be waived if one poll worker knows the voter;
under HB 3, the waiver could happen only if both poll workers
know the voter, but any voter without a photo ID and not
recognized by both poll workers would still have the opportunity
to vote a questioned ballot. She said she would guess everyone
knows each other in the smaller communities, but she said she
cannot swear to that.
8:44:59 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS stated concern about changing the
requirement from one to two poll workers. She said she sees
that as a huge deal in the rural communities. She relayed that
she has received feedback from her constituents in the small
community of Wasilla who use familiarity or fishing and hunting
licenses as ID, but don't necessarily carry two pieces of ID,
and find [HB 3] cumbersome absent the presence of actual voter
fraud.
MS. FENUMIAI responded that she personally has not heard from
the electorate regarding any concerns over HB 3. Further, she
reiterated that during her time at the division, she has "not
seen a case of voter fraud that this bill is proactively trying
... to prevent."
8:46:48 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES said she received comments from people in
villages that there might only be one poll worker present at an
election. She asked if that is accurate.
MS. FENUMIAI answered that at a voting precinct on Election Day
there are always multiple election officials; however, in many
of the state's in-person absentee voting locations, in small
communities, there is only one official available at that site
for the 15-day voting period up through Election Day.
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES asked if it would be a feasible solution
to allow someone in a smaller community to vouch for a voter's
identity and whether other states have such a provision.
MS. FENUMIAI answered that she does not know if other states
have that provision. She said she thinks it would be the will
of the committee to decide whether to use that approach, and she
offered her understanding that it could work under HB 3.
8:48:59 AM
MS. FENUMIAI, in response to Representative Hughes, said she has
not seen a tribal ID card, but has been told that some have
photo ID and some do not.
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES, regarding free photo IDs, offered her
understanding that if offered, they would be made available
through the Division of Motor Vehicles. She questioned how a
bedridden or extremely disabled person would be able to get to a
DMV office to pick up a photo ID and whether the state would
make any accommodation in such circumstances.
MS. FENUMIAI deferred to the DMV.
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES said she thinks it would be helpful to
have that information as part of the discussion.
8:50:18 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS asked Ms. Fenumiai to describe the
characteristics of small communities, which might have only one
poll worker at an in-person absentee voting location.
MS. FENUMIAI said she probably should not have used the term
"small communities." She clarified that usually an absentee
voting location in a community has only one district ballot, and
those locations typically have only one worker. The division's
absentee voting stations located in its regional election
offices have multiple workers. For example, in Pelican, Alaska,
there is only one person who would be considered an election
worker, and that person may be the city clerk. There may be
other people working in the Office of the City Clerk, but only
that one person hired by the division would be the absentee
voting official.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS related that he drove an elderly
woman in Klawock to the polls. He asked if, under HB 3, someone
without a driver's license would still be able to vote.
MS. FENUMIAI answered yes, as long as the division is able to
validate the identity of the person, based on the identifiers in
the voter registration system, as well as certain other
databases. In response to a follow-up question, she said those
identifiers are found in AS 15.07.060(a)(2) and include:
driver's license number, state identification card number,
social security number, and date of birth.
8:53:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS asked if voter fraud is prevalent
in other jurisdictions.
MS. FENUMIAI answered she does not know.
8:54:17 AM
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON asked how frequently the division purges
the voter list.
MS. FENUMIAI answered it is done annually, following the General
Election.
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON said he would like to know what criteria
are used. He explained that three of his children are out of
state, two of which have been gone for several years and have
tried unsuccessfully to be removed from Alaska's voter
registration rolls ("voter rolls").
MS. FENUMIAI said the purging process is outlined in AS
15.07.130; the process is started in November of each calendar
year. She said the division used to be able to remove people
solely for not voting, but that was disallowed when the National
Registered Voter Act (NVRA) was passed in the 1990s. She said
people chosen for list maintenance are those who, in the
preceding two years before examination of the voter rolls, have
had mail returned as undeliverable, have not had contact with
the division, and have not voted or "appeared to vote" in the
two prior General Elections. The division sends those people a
notice. If that notice is returned as undeliverable, but there
is a forwarding address, then the division will send another
notice. If the person does not respond within 45 days, the
division puts his/her name on the inactive list. Ms. Fenumiai
said if the division does not receive the first notice back, it
is not allowed to remove the voter from the voter rolls. She
said other allowable ways to remove a voter from the voter rolls
are when the voter calls and tells the division that he/she
wants to be removed; when the person registers to vote in
another state and the other state sends that information to the
division; and when the division finds out from family members or
the Bureau of Vital Statistics, or by reading the obituaries,
that a voter has died.
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON asked if there are more voters on the
voter rolls than people in a community.
MS. FENUMIAI said she has not looked at population statistics
recently. She recollected that following the last U.S. Census,
she saw a report somewhere that reflected there were about
25,000 less people registered to vote than there were people of
voting age in Alaska. She said she could get the statistics
from the Department of Labor & Workforce Development and provide
them to Representative Isaacson.
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON said he would like that information. He
offered his understanding that there are 1,500 voters on the
voter rolls in the City of North Pole, but only 2,200 total
residents, many of whom are under voting age. He said he finds
the numbers incongruous. He opined that this is an important
issue to discuss. He recalled testimony stating that "the
personal recognition, or the waiver, may affect voters' turnout,
because the state conducts voter purges approximately every two
years during which the voters can be removed from the registry
simply for failing to return a postcard in time." He said the
accusation is that a person who is not on the voting list, but
has ID, might still be refused a vote.
8:59:10 AM
MS. FENUMIAI said there is an "intent to return" provision under
Alaska Statute, which allows a voter registered to vote in the
State of Alaska to remain on the voter rolls as long as he/she
claims an intent to return. Further, the voter will remain on
the voter rolls until he/she asks to be removed or is targeted
by the list maintenance procedure previously outlined.
8:59:46 AM
MS. FENUMIAI, in response to Chair Lynn, said the list
maintenance provisions in statute would not be affected under HB
3.
9:00:09 AM
MS. FENUMIAI, in response to Representative Hughes, clarified
her previous explanation regarding list maintenance provisions.
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES, referred to Representative Isaacson's
previous statement regarding his daughters, and she ventured
there must be flaws in process since there are folks on the list
that don't want to be on it. She indicated concern that a
requirement for two poll workers may result in litigation. She
asked, "Would this bill trigger a need where we would start
having two in all these communities and therefore paying a lot
more people for the second worker?"
MS. FENUMIAI said she does not have a legal background, but
under HB 3, if a person was not personally known by both poll
workers, he/she would still be allowed to vote via the normal
process, and the division would then have to look at the
identifiers provided by that voter.
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES asked Ms. Fenumiai if she thinks it would
be a good idea to include a provision in HB 3 to allow a person
to come back with ID within a certain amount of time after an
election, like the State of Kansas does.
MS. FENUMIAI said she does not think that provision is needed,
because currently anyone can vote a questioned ballot. She
questioned whether such a provision would work with Alaska's
expansive geography; Alaska's election offices are spread
throughout the state, but they are not located in every
community. Furthermore, she expressed concern that it may slow
down the counting process, which by law has to be completed 15
days after election.
9:04:05 AM
MS. FENUMIAI, in response to Representative Hughes, clarified
that those voters who registered to vote by mail without
providing photo ID must show photo ID when they vote for the
first time by mail or in person. She said other accepted forms
of identification showing the voter's name and current address
are listed on page 4, [lines 4-7], of HB 3, and include copies
of utility bills, bank statements, paychecks, government checks,
or other government documents. She continued as follows:
If ... I go vote at a polling place, and I don't have
my identification currently, and I'm not ...
personally known by an election worker, I would vote a
questioned ballot. I'm an active, registered voter in
our state voter registration system; my identity has
been validated when I registered to vote; I would not
need to submit an additional form of identification
when I voted my questioned ballot.
MS. FENUMIAI, in response to a follow-up question, stated that
HB 3 would not change the process of using or counting a
provisional ballot. She directed attention to language in
Section 4, on page 4, [lines 8 through 21], which states reasons
[under AS 15.20.207(b)] that a questioned ballot may not be
counted. She continued:
The only provision that was changed in that section
was the provision on being personally known by the
election officials to the new proposed provision of
being personally known by two election officials. And
if they're not eligible for that waiver, as long as
they provided the identifiers required that I
mentioned earlier, their ballot would count.
9:07:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES expressed concern over balancing the ID
requirements of those who vote in person and those who do not.
MS. FENUMIAI outlined the process by which a voter applies to
vote by mail. She said the voter submits a signed application,
which contains the voter's name, residence address, ballot
mailing address, and identifiers unique to that voter. The
division compares the identifiers on the application to the
information on its system, and if the voter is eligible, he/she
is marked to receive a ballot. After receiving the ballot
either by mail, by facsimile, or through the on-line ballot
delivery system, the voter votes the ballot and completes the
open affidavit envelope by signing it and providing an
identifier. The signing needs to be witnessed by at least one
person "over the age of 18."
MS. FENUMIAI, in response to a follow-up question, said a person
who votes electronically must print the affidavit envelope, sign
it, and scan it back to the division with the ballot as a
portable document format (PDF) through the on-line delivery
system.
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES ventured that an affidavit could be used
in the case where a person comes to the polling place to vote,
but does not have photo ID and is not recognized by the election
workers.
MS. FENUMIAI explained that under HB 3, if a person goes to the
polling place on Election Day without proper identification and
is not properly known by two election officials, then the person
would be allowed to vote a questioned ballot. She stated that
the information in the affidavit mentioned by Representative
Hughes is information already requested by the questioned ballot
open affidavit envelope.
9:12:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER relayed that he is a joint prime sponsor
of HB 3, and he stated his intent is "to ensure the integrity
and the confidence in every ... single Alaska vote." He
emphasized the importance of making every reasonable
accommodation, so that no one is burdened in the process. He
offered his understanding that Mr. Kovach had talked about
problems particular to the elderly [and voting], and he asked if
the division could make a regulation that would allow someone
already on the voter list to use an expired driver's license or
ID. Further, he asked if there is any [language in the bill]
that the division could not handle through regulation.
MS. FENUMIAI responded that although current law states that the
ID must be "current and valid", the division could draft a
regulation to address that.
9:14:21 AM
MS. FENUMIAI, in response to Representative Kreiss-Tomkins, said
Alaska currently has approximately 506,000 registered voters.
9:14:47 AM
MS. FENUMIAI, in response to a request from Representative
Isaacson to clarify the number of poll workers typically in
attendance, stated that the division strives to have four to six
workers depending on precinct size; statute requires at least
four. She said she has never heard of a precinct with less than
two workers. She reiterated there is usually only one voting
official at each [in-person absentee voting] location for the
15-day voting period up through Election Day. In response to a
follow-up question, she said she has not heard of any situation
in which two poll workers showed up at different times resulting
in only a single worker present. Furthermore, she stated this
is unlikely, because poll workers work the entire shift.
9:18:06 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS related that in her community she has
observed an increase in early voters each year, and her friends
in the Bush are starting to utilize that opportunity. She
opined, "So, that one poll worker, I think, does make a
difference." She said she advocates for her friends in the
Bush, as well as for the local polling places used by her
constituents.
9:19:15 AM
CHAIR LYNN asked if not having two election workers on site
would prevent anyone from voting.
MS. FENUMIAI answered that under Sections 3 and 4 of HB 3, a
person voting absentee in person without proper ID would still
get to vote an absentee in-person ballot. The ballot would be
reviewed by a bipartisan board, as is currently done, and as
long as the identifiers listed in AS 15.07 060(a)(2) and (3)
were provided, the ballot would be counted. In response to a
follow-up question from the chair, she confirmed that the
proposed legislation would not disenfranchise anyone.
9:21:54 AM
MYRON NANENG, President, Association of Village Council
Presidents (AVCP), stated that AVCP, which represents 56
villages on the Yukon-Kuskokwim ("Y-K") Delta, opposes HB 3. He
talked about young people from villages trying to get IDs and
being disappointed because of "other requirements." He said,
for example, just to register a name change requires a list of
documents. He said having to make a number of trips in and out
of Bethel just to get an ID is expensive. For example, from
some villages the cost of a round-trip ticket is about $800. He
said he thinks the requirement for voter ID proposed under HB 3
will disenfranchise many people living in the villages. Mr.
Naneng said many people in rural Alaska know their fellow
community members, but he questioned how many villagers a person
hired as an election worker from outside the village would know.
CHAIR LYNN asked if most of the people in Mr. Naneng's
association and in the villages have tribal ID of some sort.
MR. NANENG answered that not every village participates with
AVCP programs, and most do not have access to tribal IDs. He
said some of the villages have their own IDs and some do not
have access to the equipment needed to get tribal IDs.
CHAIR LYNN asked Ms. Fenumiai for her response to Mr. Naneng's
testimony.
9:26:17 AM
MS. FENUMIAI reiterated that without photo ID, voters would
still be able to vote a questioned ballot. She said under the
federal Help America Vote Act (HAVA) of 2002, no voter can be
denied the right to cast a ballot.
CHAIR LYNN asked, "Would that then take care of the concerns
that were expressed by Mr. Naneng?"
MS. FENUMIAI answered that it would; however, she said some
voters have issues with voting a questioned ballot. She
explained that some people have the misperception that their
questioned ballot is not going to count. Further, some people
do not want to go through the extra process involved in voting a
questioned ballot. She said she can guarantee the voters of
Alaska that every questioned ballot that is cast is reviewed by
a board and, as long as the voter is eligible to have cast the
ballot and provides the required information on that questioned
ballot open affidavit, it is counted accordingly per state law.
9:27:47 AM
MR. NANENG responded as follows:
I think that, like you say, it discourages a lot of
people from being able to vote ... with that added
burden. If that is the case, would the whole village,
having voted on Election Day without their ... ballots
from one village then ... end up as being questioned
ballots?
CHAIR LYNN asked Mr. Naneng if he thinks "this" would be "one of
those ... potential hassles that we talked about earlier."
MR. NANENG answered yes.
9:28:24 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS asked Mr. Naneng how many of the
tribal governments in the Y-K Delta have ID cards.
MR. NANENG estimated at least 20 villages - the ones that have
put together tribal ordinances for enrollment. Currently, he
said, there is a requirement to have a tribal ID card in order
to qualify for Indian Health Service (IHS). In response to
Representative Kreiss-Tomkins, he confirmed that every one of
the tribal ID cards has on it a photo of the individual to whom
the card was issued.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS noted that someone had submitted
written testimony stating that she has never seen tribal ID
cards with photos on them. He remarked that that information
conflicts with the testimony from Mr. Naneng.
MR. NANENG indicated that photo IDs for individuals are a
requirement associated with tribal enrollment.
9:30:36 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS asked Mr. Naneng what the total
number of villages is out of which the aforementioned 20 {have
put together tribal ordinances for enrollment].
MR. NANENT answered 56.
9:30:57 AM
MR. NANENG, in response to the chair, offered his understanding
that in Bethel, individuals who vote show ID, because they have
access to a DMV office. In the villages, he relayed, the
election place workers know the voters by name.
9:31:42 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES expressed concern that every vote should
be counted. She asked for further clarification of the changes
proposed under Section 4 of HB 3.
MS. FENUMIAI reiterated that the only change proposed in Section
4 is to switch one of the reasons a questioned ballot may not be
counted from if a voter was not "[PERSONALLY KNOWN BY THE
ELECTION OFFICIAL]" to "was not eligible for waiver of the
identification requirement under AS 15.15.225(b)". She deferred
to Mr. Bullard of Legislative Legal and Research Services to
offer further information regarding the statute referenced. She
reviewed the reasons a questioned ballot may not be counted [as
shown in paragraphs (1) and (2), in Section 4]. She stated,
"The division's interpretation of this has been for quite some
time that ... if you execute the certificate [and] you provide
the identifiers required by statute, ... the ballot would count.
That hasn't changed, according to the way the division
interprets this bill."
9:34:37 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES directed attention to language on page 4,
beginning on line 12, which read: "has not provided the
identification required by AS 15.15.225(a)". She offered her
understanding that this language is part of the changes proposed
in Section 4.
MS. FENUMIAI clarified that that is current language in statute,
and she deferred to Mr. Bullard for further explanation.
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES noted that [the list of qualifiers in
Section 4, subsection (b), paragraph (2)] are connected by an
"and", and she asked for further clarification.
9:37:36 AM
ALPHEUS BULLARD, Attorney, Legislative Legal Counsel,
Legislative Legal and Research Services, Legislative Affairs
Agency (LAA), stated that HB 3 addresses identification
requirements for in-person voting of a regular ballot; it would
not change any laws or regulations relating to provisional
ballots, absentee ballots, or questioned ballots. He said
Section 4 deals with whether a questioned ballot can be counted
or not, and the only change in Section 4 is a conforming
amendment relating to Section 2 of the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES reiterated her query as follows:
It sounds like the way the law is now is if the
identification is not shown ... when the questioned
ballot is cast, that we have other provisions that we
fall back on. But when I read this, it appears that
in order for a questioned ballot to be counted, all of
these things must be met, including this Section 1, as
... it's being proposed to be amended, that these ID
pieces would have to be shown at the time of voting if
the questioned ballot is to be counted. But you're
saying, "No, there's a back-up plan." Is that
correct?
9:39:44 AM
MR. BULLARD suggested going through Section 4 to provide some
clarity. He directed attention to the word "or", on page 4,
line 16, between paragraphs (2) and (3). He explained that a
questioned ballot may not be counted if the voter fails to
properly execute the certificate "which ... includes these
identifiers," or "either (2) or (3)." He said the language in
bold and underlined [on lines 18-19, text provided previously],
just provides that if the person who has cast the questioned
ballot did not provide any of the identification, which would be
either photo ID or two forms of ID under Section 1 of the bill
and were not known and did not provide the identifier [then the
questioned ballot may not count]. He said, "It's just making it
comprehensive." He stated, "All the sections require the voter
casting a questioned ballot to have those identifiers; this is
just incorporating the universe of possible circumstances."
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES responded as follows:
The "or" is between whether it's a first-time voter or
not a first-time voter, so, that's not what I'm
talking about. It is within the list of what's
required for the first-time voter; it's within the
list of what's required for ... the other voters. I
do not see the word "or," and it seems like all these
things are required, so now if we amend this, we would
require the identification pieces in Section 1; it
wouldn't be that you could forget that and look at
other identifiers.
MR. BULLARD directed attention to lines 13-14, on page 4, which
he said shows what is not eligible for waiver of the
identification requirements under AS 15.15.225(b). He said,
"That legally accomplishes the same end as this new language or
the old language in paragraph (3) of HB [3]. ... That is how
identification requirements are waived."
9:42:26 AM
MR. NANENG asked, "Since rural Alaska has historically voted for
one party, is this legislation an effort to make their votes
invalid?"
CHAIR LYNN answered, "Absolutely not." He emphasized the value
in everyone's vote.
9:43:04 AM
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON thanked Mr. Naneng for testifying. He
asked him what time table IHS has placed to comply with the
photo ID requirement in order to receive medical treatment.
MR. NANENG said he does not know, but said currently everyone is
receiving medical treatment. He related that he was told the
next time he requested services he would need to provide tribal
ID.
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON said it sounds like [IHS] is moving
rapidly.
MR. NANENG responded that he is not sure.
9:44:11 AM
JEFFREY MITTMAN, Executive Director, American Civil Liberties
Union (ACLU) of Alaska, said he would focus the committee's
attention on the constitutional aspects of the bill, in
particular to a review done by two bodies: the federal courts,
which look at federal voting questions, and the Alaska
Department of Justice. He said Alaska is covered under the
Voting Rights Act (VRA) of 1965, "landmark legislation" passed
by U.S. Congress to ensure all Americans would have equal rights
to vote. He said Alaska has a history of discriminatory
treatment against its Native citizens. On that basis, he said,
the entirety of Alaska is covered under the VRA. Mr. Mittman
stated that because the changes proposed in HB 3 would have the
effect of diminishing the right of Alaska Natives to vote, ACLU
of Alaska believes the proposed legislation would not be
constitutional and would likely be rejected by the Department of
Justice, and, if litigation were brought, would be found invalid
by the courts. Mr. Mittman emphasized the importance of
remembering that the right to vote, unlike buying alcohol,
getting a job, or receiving medical treatment, is a fundamental
right of democracy.
9:46:20 AM
MR. MITTMAN stated that under HB 3, a person would be treated
differently depending on his/her location and ability to obtain
the necessary identification. Further, because there is no free
ID available, the proposed legislation would impose a mandatory
responsibility to obtain identification that requires payment of
a fee. He said identification cards, voter registration, and
applications for birth certificates all involve a fee. He
stated that it is not legal to impose a fee on Alaska voters as
a prerequisite to voting; that is considered analogous to a poll
tax.
MR. MITTMAN posited that it is important to note there is no
evidence of voter fraud, which he said would be considered in
reviews by the Department of Justice and the courts, because
while they will give deference to the intent of the legislature,
"there would need to be some indication of what the legislature
is trying to achieve other than having the effect of
disenfranchising Alaska voters." He said courts do not look at
the generality of what other states do; they would consider the
situation in Alaska. He stated when people in villages have
used the system of recognition by a poll worker as a reasonable
system of ensuring against fraud, the courts would wonder why
that state would replace that means of identification with "some
arbitrary, bureaucratic requirement that there be some sort of
photo ID, which has no way of increasing any protections against
alleged fraud."
MR. MITTMAN stated that for these reasons, the ACLU of Alaska
believes the courts would find HB 3 unconstitutional. He
concluded, "Given the lack of evidence, given statements from
the Division of Elections that there does not appear to be a
problem, we would recommend that the legislature not entangle
the court in ... litigation and in Department of Justice review
of a really unnecessary bill." He offered to answer questions.
9:49:06 AM
CHAIR LYNN asked Mr. Mittman how he would respond to someone
saying, "The absence of evidence of fraud is not evidence of its
absence."
MR. MITTMAN talked about having very strict requirements, such
as a retinal scan and blood sample and photo ID and five people
to verify one identity, in order to guarantee every single
person is who he/she claims to be; however, he said that is not
"the balance" - what is "reasonable" and "appropriate." He said
the courts would consider what the legislature is trying to
achieve and what the effect of the bill that is actually drafted
is, and, on that basis, "the allegation that you can't disprove
a negative - that you can't disprove that there's fraud - would
not be sufficient to override the unconstitutionality of HB 3."
CHAIR LYNN offered his understanding that Mr. Mittman had
mentioned language in HB 3 relating to rural areas. He asked
him to point to the language.
MR. MITTMAN explained the reason rural areas come into effect is
because of a requirement that the individual must have a
driver's license with a photo. In rural areas where there is no
DMV to issue a photo, there are driver's licenses without
photos. By changing the requirement, those people in rural
areas would have to fly to another part of the state to obtain a
driver's license with a [photo] ID. He said the ACLU of
Alaska's written testimony, included in the committee packet,
references that courts have already looked at a requirement like
this in Texas, where in order to get a photo ID, people had to
drive out of a county, and the bill was invalidated. He
reiterated that DMV offices do not exist in every small village.
9:52:54 AM
CHAIR LYNN asked if Mr. Bullard had overall comments to make
regarding HB 3.
MR. BULLARD said he would associate himself with some of [Mr.
Mittman's] testimony by reiterating that Alaska is a covered
jurisdiction under the VRA. Any statutes that are enacted to
address election procedures and voting are going to be subject
to preclearance by the Department of Justice or through
declaratory action filed in the United States District Court in
the District of Columbia. Further, he stated that voting is a
fundamental right, as recognized under the Constitution of the
State of Alaska. He said HB 3 would be subject to challenge
under those provisions.
CHAIR LYNN asked Mr. Bullard if, with what he knows presently,
he anticipates any problems with the constitutionality of the
proposed legislation.
MR. BULLARD answered that he does not want to speak to what may
or may not be. He said, "There are legal issues, and I don't
know how a court would find."
9:54:27 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS recollected that Mr. Kobach had
said Kansas law provides for a waiver of the photo ID fee. He
remarked that he does not see such a provision in HB 3, and he
asked if Alaska currently has any similar language in statute.
MR. BULLARD responded that the only comparable provision is in
AS 18.65.310, which allows a person 60 years of age or older to
get a state ID card, which is "similar in most respects to a
driver's license," at no cost. He said the fee for someone
under the age of 60 is $15.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS asked Mr. Bullard to confirm that
someone under the age of 60 who is getting a photo ID for the
first time in order to vote would have to pay at least $15.
MR. BULLARD answered that is accurate.
9:55:57 AM
CHAIR LYNN, after ascertaining that there was no one else who
wished to testify, closed public testimony.
9:56:24 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS expressed appreciation for the testimony
heard from Mr. Kobach; however, she proffered that Alaska is
different from Kansas. She stated that she is a proponent of
the adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," and she said that
is how she feels about HB 3. She read a quote from one of her
constituents, as follows:
I find irony that so many take such great offense to
any infringement of our right to bear arms, yet those
same people are so anxious to add layers of red tape
to the right to vote with legislation like this. Both
the right to bear arms and the right to vote are
crucial to the maintenance of our free society, and
neither should be infringed upon with governmental
regulations and/or restrictions.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS said she thinks it would be clear, after
hearing her read that, how she intends to vote.
9:57:35 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES requested more information from the DMV
about "getting the photo ID and whether that's free and how easy
it is for people who are disabled." She opined that
consideration should be given to the following: those over 65
who may be using expired documents; exempting those who are
disabled; "considering whether there would be need for religious
objections"; whether there should be an allowance for people to
show photo IDs to the division after an election; and whether a
single voting official at the in-person absentee voting
locations is sufficient with the increasing number of absentee
votes being cast. She opined that the bill needs more work.
9:58:47 AM
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON echoed the comments of Representative
Hughes. He opined that the committee needs to find out the
requirements of IHS, because "ID could become moot if IHS has
already moved to have everybody photographed and carded for
medical purposes."
10:00:06 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS concurred that more time is needed
for consideration of the questioned ballot process, tribal
voting IDs, and the documentation of voter fraud in Kansas.
10:00:39 AM
CHAIR LYNN announced that HB 3 was held over.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| 01 HB3 ver U.pdf |
HSTA 2/21/2013 8:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 02 HB3 Sponsor Statement v.U.pdf |
HSTA 2/21/2013 8:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 03 HB003-OOG-DOE-2-15-13.pdf |
HSTA 2/21/2013 8:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 04 HB3 Legal Sectional Analysis.PDF |
HSTA 2/21/2013 8:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 05 HB3 Support Documents - Kansas Press Release on Voter ID success.pdf |
HSTA 2/21/2013 8:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 06 HB3 Support Documents - Voter ID Laws Passed Since 2011.pdf |
HSTA 2/21/2013 8:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 07 HB3 Support Documents - Voter ID Requirements.PDF |
HSTA 2/21/2013 8:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 08 Letter opposing HB 3 Otte MTNT.PDF |
HSTA 2/21/2013 8:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 09 Resolution opposing HB 3 Municipal Clerks.pdf |
HSTA 2/21/2013 8:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |